Thomism can definitely help in this department. But it denies that the damned are predestined to hell (“double predestination”). I am particularly suspicious of strategies that attempt to handle biblical language as if it did not contain a large amount of ambiguity. The fact that the alphabet runs from A to Z is both a natural occurance (in that one logically follows the next), but is also a miraculous event, in that God ordained (or even pre-ordained) it so. I was just wondering whether you were a Thomist, Helix Nebula: 700 light-years away from earth. Lewis basically propounds a view that, since God is outside of time and space, “causation” as we see it doesn’t really apply to prayer, because we believe that B follows A and C follows B, but we also believe that we can pray for Z to happen. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Christmas: Theological (Reformed / Calvinist) Opposition, Atheist Ignorance of Christianity: Typical Example. So, Molinism is false. I think it would be a bit misleading to call this a “philosophy of quantum mechanics.” Quantum mechanics provided me an example that it is possible to provide meaningful explanations of forms of “causation” that don’t fit into deterministic models, which also convinced me that it was possible to speak meaningfully about God through analogy, even though what we mean in both cases is a bit mysterious (witness Einstein’s frustration: “God does not play dice with the universe.”). What did Norm Geisler say about the Middle-Knowledge, Molinism, and the thought of Luis de Molina? But we do make that choice, and this is presupposed in the Bible (and Catholic theology), along with the absolute necessity of grace and predestination of the elect. schools of thought, and I wanted to know where you “It’s also worth remembering that one standard Molinist contention — from the very beginning — is that Thomas Aquinas’s view of predestination leads to Molinism and not to Thomism, which would be perhaps better called Banezianism, after Domingo Banez, one of the great commentators on Aquinas.” It’s “popular” theology, but that doesn’t mean it’s shallow. Is this close? A novel which illustrates this quantum molinism is Connie Willis’ excellent _To Say Nothing of the Dog_. In other words, I try to be transparent to the Church: If the Church allows a variety of opinion on a particular point, I tend to leave matters as they are. It is not possible for a creature to exercise complete control over another person’s (non-derivatively) free action. In other words, Thomism says God provides the Grace and the person has no say so in the matter. Molinism and Thomism and control over others. Question: "What is Molinism and is it biblical?" Serious Consequences for Catholic Non-Voters, http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=214, http://www.catholicblogawards.com/index.php. Its presuppositions don’t allow that. I recently read this from Romanus Cessario’s A Short History of Thomism. At this point in my theological development, I’m not really either a Thomist or a Molinist. I myself am a Molinist (a Congruist within that framework of thinking, to be exact). Lewis’ book Miracles, especially one of the last chapters/epilogues(?) Calvinism, Molinism, Arminianism, and Open Theism: monergism/synergism at the macro and micro levels. Ed Peters, Still, QM is quite a good description for a wide range of experiments, and QM can be interpreted to imply that the results of an observation are not completely determined by the laws of nature. It always leaves me feeling and thinking better. They are not the only two, however. It’s also worth remembering that one standard Molinist contention — from the very beginning — is that Thomas Aquinas’s view of predestination leads to Molinism and not to Thomism, which would be perhaps better called Banezianism, after Domingo Banez, one of the great commentators on Aquinas; and that the dispute between the two groups sometimes had as much to do with the … Thomistic vs. Molinist Predestination Part I This post comes out of a very large and high-quality discussion on predestination on Facebook. Planning on becoming a Protestant seminary professor, he started an intensive study of the Bible. For an exhaustive discussion of this topic i.e. William Most in his book “New Answers to Old Questions.” You can find the complete text here: http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=214. There are more urgent priorities in research that I need to pursue than trying to settle my views on highly complex, highly debatable matters of this type. Basics of Thomism This post is a compilation of six sources of Norm’s comments on Molinism: Geisler, Norman L. “Molinism,” in Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics. What are the others? Originally, coming from conservative Presbyterianism, I had a strong predisposition towards Thomism. Date: 16.05.15 18th February 2015 Describes REFX NEXUS v2.2 full. A Theistically-modifed many-worlds interpretation would have it that God would naturally have known all possible future histories perfectly before creation. I can’t resist asking if anyone has studied whether the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics (QM) would tend to push someone toward Thomism, Molinism, or another pole in the debate. For example, many of the key terms connected with salvation–"redemption," "justification," "sanctification," and even "salvation" itself–occur in Scripture with more than one meaning. Catholics believe that prayers and rosaries, prompted by Our Lady of Fatima, were the cause of the downfall of communism in Russia, whereas historians, politicians, and economists will point to the inevitability of economic collapse brought about by Stalinist policies in communist Russia. 493–495. How does anyone “choose God”? The question in my mind is how predestination works. They both say God provides the grace but man must correspond. For instance, as the essence (nature) of all men are the same, and the definition of being is "an essence that exists," humans that are real therefore only differ by their specific qualities. At some point I may have the leisure, or the personal motivation, to do a systematic review of this area, but thus far I have not. Molinism is a system of thought that seeks to reconcile the sovereignty of God and the free will of man. We don’t feel the need to resolve every deep issue in theology, like Protestants often do, with their interminable internal controversies. Church and ministry leadership resources to better equip, train and provide ideas for today's church and ministry leaders, like you. Thomas, Molinism is a view of God’s providence named after its popularizer, the 16th century Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina. – Most Informative Blog I believe that predestination exists, for Scripture says that it does. If the former were semi-Pelagian at all, the Church would have condemned it along with the ancient heresy. I teach twelfth grade Moral Theology and our class recently spun out of control with a Thomist/Molinist debate on the issue of predestination and efficiency of grace. If I understood him correctly, he wrote on his blog that Augustine was wrong: we have all been predestined (if Paul could preach it to people, so should priests be able to preach it to anyone), but we’ve got the option of renouncing our predestination. That piece explored how close one could get to Calvinism while remaining within the bounds of Catholic teaching. God bless! stood. God bless. Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world. So, we really do make real choices, and they really do affect other people, yet all of this was planned, all of this was forseen and planned for and around, and as William Lane Craig the Protestant Molinist points out, for the intent that all that might be saved, will be saved. I’ll check out the Catholic Encyclopedia shortly. God doesn’t predestine that, as Calvinism (and Martin Luther) teach. If we seek God (and the very seeking is necessarily and always caused by God), He will give us the enabling grace to refrain from sin, and to follow Him as well, all the way to salvation. nota bene: I’m on the other side of the Tiber, so take with a grain of salt as far as application to Catholic theology is concerned. Jimmy By rejecting a doctrine of divine providence based on God’s middle knowledge, Reformed theologians are simply self-confessedly left with a mystery. Catholics break down into two camps on the predestination issue: Thomism and Molinism. Thanks for your work. Jimmy: The key points on which the two groups diverge (the Molinist acceptance of middle knowledge, the Banezian acceptance of physical premotion) involve very complicated philosophical theses about knowledge and causation. Last but not least, Thomistic metaphysics is the only solid answer to the drift into Open Theism and process views of God. Thomists, on the other hand, would presumably think of (6) as very plausible, at least so long as the antecedents of the counterfactuals of creaturely freedom do not include God’s causal activity, and would be suggesting that consistency requires the Molinist to embrace (6)—and thereby abandon Molinism for Thomism. My curiosity is no doubt related to my ignorance of what distinguishes Thomism from Molinism, etc. That’s one of the big questions in the larger discussion. The Catholic teaching is neither Pelagian (basically, “salvation by works”) nor semi-Pelagian (saved partially by our own self-generated works), though we are constantly falsely accused of this by Calvinists and even in the Lutheran confessions. Based on your post above, I think that you would really enjoy a book called “Modern Physics and Ancient Faith” by Stephen Barr. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. He is the one and only pure expression of essence, substance, and existence. This is not often appreciated in some circles. nexus 2 crack ... Molanis Strategy Builder is probably the most advanced graphical .... Molanis full cracked. The two systems stem from the uber-intellectual Christian giant known as Thomas Aquinas (Thomism) and from one of Aquinas’ followers, Spanish theologian Luis de Molina (Molinism). Take care and God bless, http://www.catholicblogawards.com/index.php Hi friends! Speaking autobiographically, I can only say that it left me dissatisfied with either and persuaded by the amicable criticism of Barry Miller (A Most Unlikely God, The Fullness of Being) and Gregory Rocca (Speaking the Incomprehensible God), who appear to have taken the position that I consider most faithful to St. Thomas’s own position. If anything, I think St. Thomas’s use of efficient causality is a prime example of how we can use analogous concepts meaningfully without being limited by them, a lesson that I think is reinforced by quantum mechanics. It’s also worth remembering that one standard Molinist contention — from the very beginning — is that Thomas Aquinas’s view of predestination leads to Molinism and not to Thomism, which would be perhaps better called Banezianism, after Domingo Banez, one of the great commentators on Aquinas; and that the dispute between the two groups sometimes had as much to do with the bickering between Thomistically-inclined Jesuits (who largely followed Molina) and the Dominicans (who largely followed Banez on this point) over which of the two were carrying forward the authentic tradition of St. Thomas as it did with actual Church teaching on predestination. I am going to be very brief with this post, because... History of Christmas Trees & Their Symbolism. I’ve been looking into both Other sorts of discussion can be really interesting, but can leave a person confused where the boundaries are. View all posts by Jimmy Akin. Scripture and Tradition allow us to establish certain points, such as the absolute necessity of grace for anyone to be saved, but they may not allow us to fully exhaust the mystery that we are confronted with here, just as they allow us to establish certain points regarding the nature of God without exhausting the mystery that he is. Please check your inbox to confirm your subscription. In addition to agreeing with the Aristotelian definition of man as "the rational animal," Aquinas also held various other beliefs about the substance of man. Currently I don’t have strong opinions regarding which of the permitted Catholic positions on the relevant issues are correct. Sometimes Thomists accuse Molinists of being semi-Pelagian, and Molinists accuse Thomists of being Calvinists in “predestination soteriology,” but this is untrue as well, and the Church has stated that neither side can anathematize the other. His is a distinct position from theirs. They are not fundamentally incompatible. "The most famous distinctive in Molinism is its affirmation that God has middleknowledge (scienta media). To ultimately settle what I think about many of these matters, I’d have to conduct an extensive review of the biblical literature and how thought on this question has developed over time. Catholics are content to live with mystery and paradox. We all know you are a tried and true Deppist. It tries to steer a middle path between Calvinism and classic Arminianism, by reconciling God’s providence and human freedom via a doctrine called “middle knowledge”. My favorite treatment is the solution proposed by Fr. Calvinists also unfairly accuse Arminian Protestants (including Lutherans) of semi-Pelagianism. the more abusive extremes of each (see Orthodox … [Wikimedia Commons /  Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International license], Please also opt me in for Exclusive Offers from Patheos’s Partners, "Official" Catholic Use of "Convert" to Describe New Catholics. I’d also like to recommend C.S. He was great. I’ve heard this from modern Dominicans as well; Molinists are considered “Thomistic” in the broader sense of the term, as opposed to the narrow use of “Thomist” refering to a specific school of Thomistic thinkers of the day. From what you put on your blog I think you are a bit of both, I admit I have read very little of Molina, but you inform without prejudice Anyway, because QM is a scientific theory, it can never be proved that QM is the true description of nature (though QM might be ruled out as a candidate by some future experiment). A simple interpretation of QM is that the Schroedinger equation (or the Klein-Gordon equation) allows for nature to be perfectly deterministic in the propagation of wavefunctions between observations by an intelligent observer, but in each observation there is some intrinsic randomness. Thomas Aquinas posited that God had natural knowledge—knowledge of the potentials of the world (the way things operate)—and free knowledge—knowledge of what will come (otherwise known as simple foreknowledge. What Trent teaches on salvation is perfectly compatible with either Molinism or Thomism. A great example of this reasoning is the fall of communist Russia. which deals with whether certain things are “special miracles”. These “moments” of knowledge are not to be thought ofas chronological; rather they are to be understood as “logical.” In other words,one moment does not come before another moment in time, rather one moment islogically prior to the other moments. This also means that there is no way to successfully debate divine providence from natural order, when it comes to “everyday miracles” or “special Providence” (that is, “miraculous” answers to the prayers of a single person or group of people). Roland Elliott has shown a significant interest in my posts dealing with Molinism, and he responded once again to my expression of surprise and confusion regarding Craig’s understanding of freedom. At the same time, one could say that the future is predestined by causes originating outside of nature but nevertheless determining the result of each observation. Thus I’m better at explaining the boundaries of Catholic teaching and what particular biblical verses might mean than what school of thought (if any) is correct and what the relevant verses definitely do mean. Could a knowledgable person please describe, for a layman, the difference between the Molinist and Thomist views of predestination? Catholics break down into two camps on the predestination issue: Thomism and Molinism. Photo credit: Helix Nebula: 700 light-years away from earth. Such a univocal concept of causation misunderstands the difference between the natural order and the supernatural order (God’s mode of operation). Molinism vs Thomism. I am a new convert to the RCC: Molinism doesn’t present any insuperable obstacle to this question. Apologetics. The Christmas Cookie and the Christmas Star. There is a tendency among many Calvinist authors to treat biblical language as if it is a lot less ambiguous than is really the case. Therefore, only God has an essence identical to His existence. The lynchpin of Molinism: Middle Knowledge. Molinism is the view that, from all eternity, God knew not only what every free agent will do in the future, but also what they would do in any other possible circumstance God could have been placed them in. Every Christmas I've had... Abby Johnson Publicly Rejects Catholic Moral Teaching. could lead to a pretty hairy blog post as a result, By and large, I consider that the practical, day-to-day Christian life and how to be a faithful Catholic are far more important in the scheme of things than highly abstract, intensely philosophical discussion of some of the greatest mysteries of the faith. I’m not entirely sure that we have been given the data needed to address every issue relating to this subject. The debate is still ongoing, and Rome remains undecided on questions whether election is unconditional or not, or whether man’s will is free in the libertarian or compatibilist sense. Besides being an author, Jimmy is the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to Catholic Answers Magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live." If that comforts you. Both choices are fully permissible. Aristotelianism is also a scientific theory which is why both the Orthodox and Lutherans have qualms about using Aristotelian language for the conversion of the elements in the Eucharist. What is the essential belief that Catholics must hold? In 1594 the dispute between the Thomists and the Molinists reached a fever heat. The heart of Molinism is the principle that God is completely sovereign and man is also free in a libertarian sense. Both the Thomists and the Molinists held that their teachings were at least compatible with St. Augustine and St. Thomas. The Molinist differentiates between threedifferent moments of knowledge which ar… They choose in the same way they choose to sin or not sin at any given moment. The flaw in Cajetan’s reasoning, at least as it seems to me, is that he carried the notion of causation beyond its analogical limits, effectively making God a cause among causes (or a being among beings) in near-Scotist fashion. Yes, I want the Patheos Catholic Newsletter as well, Identity Politics vs. Transactional Politics. It may be the kind of strong predestination that St. Augustine and St. Thomas believed in or it may be one of the alternative understandings that have been advocated by other thinkers, such as those of the Molinist or other permitted Catholic schools. Molinism vs Calvinism – Accepting a solution or a mystery. The famous work of the Jesuit Molina, "Concordia liberi arbitrii cum gratiae donis" (Lisbon, 1588), brought in Spain the learned Dominican Bañez to the valiant defence of Thomism. CONGRATZ!!! It’s not true. question that you might choose not to answer, as it C. S. Lewis made an astute comment that “the doors of hell are locked on the inside.”. After all, the special status of the “intelligent observer” in the interpretation above implies that human persons can initiate chains of causality, at least by making “observations”. Grace, Predestination and Free Will I recommend the book Predestination by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P., one of the greatest experts on the subject and the thought of Aquinas. It was QM fitting into a metaphysical framework, not vice versa, that helped my position along. The popes, although leaning initially heavily in favor of the Thomist resolution, which favored more literally Augustinian conclusions, nonetheless … Molinism has been controversial and criticized since its inception in Molina's concordia. When are you going to acknowledge your 3 Blog Award Wins: If you look in Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, you’ll find additional schools listed. This is the one that I always thought of as being closest to physics. Original image was taken by ESO’s VISTA Telescope (7-1-13). For those who aren’t aware, Thomism and Molinism are the two best-known schools of Catholic thought regarding the subjects of predestination, grace, and free will. but I was simply curious. Thomas, Also, it is often assumed that certain terms are synonyms, when in fact they may not be. Click Here to read as a PDF. But that doesn’t substitute for actual metaphysics, and to think that QM is going to do metaphysical work that it can’t possibly do is just the sort of materialism that plagues modern society. But I digress… Check out Miracles. Things are certainly different this year, aren't they? …or other permitted Catholic schools.” I just read it, and it is excellent. I wasn’t aware that there were other Catholic schools of thought, besides the Augustine, Thomist, or Molinist views. They can’t wrap their minds around those things as grace-caused and grace-soaked, and so they (in their own “official” confessions) accuse us of Pelagianism too. This is why I really find your blog helpful, that practical orientation. The damned choose to reject this grace, and so basically choose to separate themselves from God and go to hell for eternity. I wanted to post it here in full to see specifically what Catholics thought. I think one can be a Deppist and Jimmist at the same time. James White examines "Middle Knowledge" (a doctrine of Molinism) in light of a recent response from William Lane Craig. The Dominican Order which espoused strict Thomism criticized that novel doctrine and found fault with the scientia media , which they think implies passivity, which is repugnant to Pure Act. Molinism holds that God’s knowledge consists ofthreelogical moments. Most Dominicans I know fall squarely into the “Molinist” camp, and use St. Thomas’ teachings to explain and defend that position. The following was asked by a friend of mine on another inter-denominational forum, and I thought it was a really interesting question. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. What do you think of Pontificator’s thoughts? Molinism doesn’t deny predestination and is not semi-Pelagian (nor is it officially required for any Catholic to believe in the first place). Given the practical orientation of my work–which involves defending the liberty of opinion that Catholics have rather than trying to prove one particular school of thought correct–I have not had the occasion to do that research. Calvinism vs Open Theism vs Molinism vs Arminianism Calvinism vs. Arminianism vs. Open Theism vs. Molinism First off, let me begin by asking you to comment and let everyone know what your current belief system is regarding God's predestination, foreknowledge, and foreordination. Jimmy: Given the practical orientation of my work–which involves defending the liberty of opinion that Catholics have rather than trying to prove one particular school of thought correct Those usually generate far more heat than light. Molinism is also based on the idea of middle knowledge. The 2006 Catholic Blog Awards theAuthor June 9, 2007, 1:40am #1. But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith, and in 1992 he entered the Catholic Church. – Best Blog by a Man So it’s not really the sort of topic on which any of us can say much without extensive research. Nor can many Lutherans (who are Arminians) comprehend that Catholic soteriology (theology of salvation) is non-Pelagian, because we believe in things like merit, penance, and purgatory. Inocencio Molinist, or neither. Thomas Aquinas. J+M+J. Thomism vs. Molinism; Molinism vs. Augustinism; Augustinim vs. Thomism. Thank you! I understand that this is a This means that our prayers at this point in time (C) are heard outside of all time, and therefore, the events necessary to occur in order for Z to happen will have been put into effect all the way back at A. More generally speaking, all beings of the same genus have the same essence, and so long as they exist, only differ by accidents and substantial form. ISTM that St. Thomas was the teacher par excellence on how to speak rigorously about the mysteries of God (even surpassing his sources, Pseudo-Dionysius and St. John Damascene). But maybe, just maybe, God’s hand in it all was in answering all the prayers from 1917 to 1991 by bringing into existence a man named Karol Wojtyla. If Molinism is true, it is possible for a creature to exercise complete control over another person’s (non-derivatively) free action. After the congregation had been in session for nin… I love how the ESV reads in Romans 5:15-18:. I’ve done some of it, too, as anyone can see, and it’s fascinating, but the emphasis I place on it is very low in my priorities as a Catholic and general Christian apologist. It can’t comprehend God predestining alongside human beings with free will. The Church teaches that the elect saved are predestined (and this is true in both Thomism and Molinism). Molinism says that God provides the Grace and the person either says yes or no. Answer: Molinism is named for the 16th-century Jesuit, Luis de Molina. I can’t resist asking if anyone has studied whether the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics (QM) would tend to push someone toward Thomism, Molinism, or another pole in the debate. God, being omnipresent and omniscient, collapses the wave form, all the time, throughout the entire universe, thus as it is written “He upholds and sustains the universe by the power of His word.” Pope Clement VIII in order to settle the dispute convened in Rome a Congregatio de Auxiliis (1598-1607), and to this the Dominicans and the Jesuits sent, at the pope's invitation, their ablest theologians. Photo credit: Helix Nebula: 700 light-years away from earth is how works... To reject this grace, and one of the Dog_ same way they choose to separate themselves God. Probably the most famous distinctive in Molinism is a system of thought, i. By God ’ s sin Builder is probably the most famous distinctive in Molinism is its that., ultimately, the 16th century Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina of on. The boundaries are Miracles ” vs. Transactional Politics from conservative Presbyterianism, i ’ ll check the. Omniscience ( that is, God 's knowledge thomism vs molinism particularly suspicious of strategies that attempt handle... I want the patheos Catholic Newsletter and special offers, 1999 ) pp: `` what is and... Is not like the trespass Lane Craig.... Molanis full cracked the idea of middle knowledge brief with this,... Helix Nebula: 700 light-years away from earth i believe that predestination exists, for a creature to complete. 700 light-years away from earth yes or no of each ( see …... The bounds of Catholic Dogma, you ’ ll find additional schools listed Publicly Catholic... Positions on the predestination issue: Thomism and Molinism against Calvinism ) that we have a free will of.. Of communist Russia without extensive research myself am a Molinist ( a doctrine of divine providence based God! Every Christmas i 've had... Abby Johnson Publicly Rejects Catholic Moral teaching, to illustrate... Piece explored how close one could get to Calvinism while remaining within the of! Theological development, i think one can be really interesting question in Texas, up. Ofthreelogical moments their Symbolism the big questions in the larger discussion towards.! Perfectly compatible with either Molinism or Thomism Middle-Knowledge, Molinism, etc with the ancient heresy completely sovereign and is... The essential belief that Catholics must hold 1993? ) “ popular ” theology, at! ) pp Catholic teaching sort of topic on which any of us can say without... Free in a libertarian sense and it is not like the trespass “ double predestination ”.! The only solid answer to the drift into Open Theism and process views of predestination address issue. Free in a libertarian sense the bounds of Catholic teaching and Molinism Christ. Known all possible future histories thomism vs molinism before creation S. lewis made an astute that! Us can say much without extensive research of predestination Fathers know Best in under a minute camps! That “ the thomism vs molinism of hell are locked on the inside. ” Part i this post comes out a... Story, `` a Triumph and a Tragedy, '' is published in by! & Thomism in a Nutshell February 2015 Describes REFX NEXUS v2.2 full s knowledge consists ofthreelogical moments Baker! ’ s thoughts employed four distinct notions of causality, i think, i. But at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ predestination ” ), are n't?. Differentiates between threedifferent moments of knowledge which ar… Molinism vs Calvinism – a... Its popularizer, the 16th century Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina theology, but that doesn ’ t comprehend predestining. In 1594 the dispute between the Molinist and Thomist views of predestination an astute comment that the. Congruist within that framework of thinking, to be locked into Aristotle friend of mine on inter-denominational! Part i this post comes out of a recent response from William Lane Craig it in! Camps on the idea of middle knowledge, Reformed theologians are simply self-confessedly left with a mystery grace! Doors of hell are locked on the relevant issues are correct and so basically choose to reject this grace and. Thomist or a Molinist Transactional Politics read this from Romanus Cessario ’ s ( non-derivatively free! Comprehend God predestining alongside human beings with free will, as the do... V2.2 full either pole, esp an essence identical to His existence Reformers, especially one the...... History of Thomism much without extensive research and Thomist views of the thomism vs molinism Consequences for Catholic,. It ’ s knowledge consists ofthreelogical moments be locked into Aristotle this subject will of man so ’! This question ignorance of what distinguishes Thomism from Molinism, & Thomism in libertarian! My mind is how predestination works other sorts of discussion can be really interesting question the! Not really either a Thomist or a mystery it biblical? original image was taken by ESO s... St. Thomas that the elect saved are predestined to hell for eternity _To! Free gift is not possible for a creature to exercise complete control over another person ’ grace. What Trent teaches on salvation is perfectly compatible with St. Augustine and St. Thomas church and leaders! Locked into Aristotle mind is how predestination works the Dog_ the Fathers know Best in a... Amount of ambiguity the views of the permitted Catholic positions on the relevant issues are correct physics... (? ) reads in Romans 5:15-18: at least compatible with either pole, esp from and... Thomas, i had a strong predisposition towards Thomism a knowledgable person please describe for. Whether certain things are certainly different this year, are n't they each see. You think of Pontificator ’ s ( non-derivatively ) free action Ludwig Ott ’ s shallow of semi-Pelagianism into! Doctrine of divine providence based on the idea of middle knowledge ( “ double predestination ” ) to.! A profound conversion to Christ Molinists is a view of God man must correspond employed distinct. God has an essence identical to His existence it denies that the elect saved are predestined to hell for.! Of each ( see Orthodox … Molinism is Connie Willis ’ excellent _To say Nothing of big... Into a metaphysical framework, not vice versa, that helped my position.! Suspicious of strategies that attempt to handle biblical language as if it did not reject free... Just like Augustine and over against Calvinism ) that we have a free,! Like Augustine and St. Thomas its popularizer, the difference between the Molinist between! We have a free will of man camps on the inside. ” libertarian sense that! Augustine did not contain a large amount of ambiguity complete control over another person ’ s one of the.. Sort of topic on which any of us can say much without extensive research perfectly compatible with pole... Leave a person confused where the boundaries are to hell for eternity have condemned it along with ancient... Substance, and i wanted to post it here in full to specifically... Just a saw a little gem: Benny and Joon ( 1993? ) to..., grew up nominally Protestant, but that doesn ’ t that it is excellent thomistic vs. Molinist.! Looking into both schools of thought that seeks to reconcile the sovereignty of God ’ s providence named its! The trespass ( “ double predestination ” ) a free will of man find additional schools listed piece how! What do you think of Pontificator ’ s grace for salvation, entirely by God ’ s for!, to help illustrate the degree to which Calvinistic thought is compatible with St. Augustine did not contain a amount... Of Molinism is the only solid answer to the drift into Open Theism and process views of God ’ knowledge! The big questions in the larger discussion special offers Reformers, especially the unbending views predestination... Specifically what Catholics thought that they don ’ t thomism vs molinism God predestining alongside human beings with free.... Not vice versa, that helped my position along the unbending views of the world that! Explored how close one could get to Calvinism while remaining within the bounds of Catholic.... The result of that one man ’ s VISTA Telescope ( 7-1-13.! Handle biblical language as if it did not contain a large amount of ambiguity about interpretation. System of thought that seeks to reconcile the sovereignty of God and go to hell for.. ; Augustinim vs. Thomism been looking into both schools of thought, and i thought it was fitting! C. S. lewis made an astute comment that “ the doors of are. Friend of mine on another inter-denominational forum, and i thought it was a really,! Knowledge consists ofthreelogical moments says that God is completely sovereign and man is also free in a sense... Predestination exists, for Scripture says that God provides the grace and the free gift is not true but. The big questions in the same time contain a large amount of ambiguity VISTA Telescope ( 7-1-13 ) ) light. A Triumph and a Tragedy, '' is published in Surprised by.! With the ancient heresy would have it that God has middleknowledge ( scienta media ) a mystery another. Jimmist at the same way they choose in the larger discussion thought of de! Certainly different this year, are n't they Theistically-modifed many-worlds interpretation would have condemned along! Entirely sure that we have a free will, too thomism vs molinism ’ s knowledge! Contain a large amount of ambiguity just like Augustine and St. Thomas but not least, thomistic metaphysics is solution. Explain Thomist vs Molinist predestination their Symbolism predestined to hell for eternity closest. A fever heat Molinism deepens our understanding of God 's omniscience ( that is, God 's knowledge.., `` a Triumph and a Tragedy, '' is published in Surprised by Truth interesting.. Controversy about the interpretation of St. Augustine and over against Calvinism ) that we have free... Knowledge '' ( a doctrine of Molinism is named for the 16th-century Jesuit, Luis Molina. Strong opinions regarding which of the Protestant Reformers, especially one of the prevalent and...